Christina sits down with Tony d'Alelio to break it all down. Tony is such a treat. He is a dancer, artist, director, choreographer, film maker and the list just goes on and on. We talk about everything from Broadway shows to the future of our industry to our idols to how out of touch we are with the youths.
Tony's Instagram: @tonydalelio
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Musical Bop by Madge and Graphic by Jeannine
Christina Peña: Hey and Welcome back to Conversations with a Mixed Chick. You know the basics. And if you’re new here. I’m your host and resident mixed chick, Christina Peña. It’s pretty simple every week I get to sit down and have a conversation with humans that I am obsessed with.
This week I get to sit down with Tony d'Alelio and it was truly a treat. We literally talk about everything and that’s the beauty of it. Tony is filled with the knowledge that he has gained as a student for life.
We break down several different Broadway shows, what it is like to change paths out of necessity, and how we can serve the new generation of theater makers.
Madge Dietrich: She's changing minds and conversations. Sharing her appreciation. Taking charge of her creation. This is Conversations with a Mixed Chick.
Christina Peña: Hi.
Tony d'Alelio: Hi Christina.
Christina Peña: I'm so happy you're here.
Tony d'Alelio: I am honored and blessed to be here to see your gorgeous face and your spirit just radiating through this zoom screen right now.
Christina Peña: Well, thank you. That's exactly what I needed at 8:00 AM on a Monday.
Tony d'Alelio: You're welcome.
Christina Peña: Thank you. Okay, so let's start with the first question. What is it like to be unapologetically Tony?
Tony d'Alelio: Wow. Thank you for this question. So unapologetically, I think that means I can walk into a space. Dressed entirely how I want to, and speaking my mind and walking in the room with a sense of humor we’ll walk into a space, like not wanting to upset or like bother anyone or ruffle some feathers.
But that quite literally is keeping any change from happening or producing anything new. So, to be unapologetically me one, it's wearing whatever the F I want cause I love clothes. And to just, you know, make people laugh and, and go for it. And, and also like, be, just be open to meet new people, I guess, is the loose answer to that question.
Christina Peña: I love that. I love listening to this question because it, people are always like, I apologize too much. Yeah. Right.
Tony d'Alelio: Even without saying anything.
Christina Peña: Yeah. Just, just the simple things. Just the simple things I love that you said, I like to make people laugh.
Tony d'Alelio: I do.
Christina Peña: Because I feel like that's the, that's like the essence behind everything I do as an actor. I always forget that. Just like to hear someone laugh is probably like the best medicine I've ever heard.
Tony d'Alelio: Right. Right. And it can come at the most unpredictable times in the most strange situations. Laughter is like the pearl inside of the clam that like, you had no idea what was going to be in there.
And you're like, we're laughing at like a funeral, like what's going on? You know, I've been in so many of those situations where it's like, we should not be laughing, but I think that's why we're laughing.
Christina Peña: You can't keep it together. And it's something that just like releases endorphins
Tony d'Alelio: 100%.
Christina Peña: That's so good. Also, you have the best sense of fashion. EVER!
What?
Tony d'Alelio: Sponsored by thrift stores across America.
Christina Peña: Meanwhile, I'm in sweats and a t-shirt
Tony d'Alelio: Hey, that's fashion.
Christina Peña: Fashion. Ripped sweats and a t-shirt to be fair.
Tony d'Alelio: Yes.
Christina Peña: Height 2020 fashion. So, let's talk about all the amazing things you do. Like I said, I spent the last hour stalking your website, which is fabulous. Everyone should go look.
Tony d'Alelio: Thank you.
Christina Peña: Something that really struck me. And I believe it's true is that you didn't go to college and you're a student of life.
Tony d'Alelio: Yes.
Christina Peña: Student for life, I think is what you said.
Tony d'Alelio: Yes.
Christina Peña: I love that because I can get, you're not a student, then you stop learning. It sounds weird, but yes.
Tony d'Alelio: Absolutely. Thank you for saying that and bringing that up first, because that used to be my biggest insecurity ever. I mean like that life path for me happened out of like practicality, because I was accepted into like my dream BFA in dance program because I've been dancing my whole life and then. It was the summer after I graduated high school.
And that like bill came in the mail where it was like, and this is how much it costs. And I just, I remember standing over my mom's shoulder and like seeing that number and like my grades, not the best in high school. So, I didn't have a lot of scholarships, you know, for higher education. So, step one, practically was like, we can't afford this. Also like paying tens of thousands of dollars to go take more dance class did not make sense.
At all, when I had been training in dance my whole life. So, I had a really long but easy conversation with my parents. Cause they could see like where I wanted to go with my life. And you know, they said, we will give you a fraction of this allowance to go up to the city and see what happens. I had teachers who were already in New York city that I had worked with in high school.
That I felt like I had some support system. Like if I needed someone to call, they would be there for me. So, I moved to New York. Also, it's important to say that while this was going on, Newsies was happening. And because I am like a young dancer, boy, I was like, I'm moving to New York to be a Newsie. Have I ever done Newsies?
No, have I done it on Broadway? Tour? Regionally? Absolutely not. That's another story for another time, but it got me to New York city. Cause I was like, I think I can dance like those boys. And then I went to every audition under the sun. So, inappropriate, like I would go in for things where they were looking for baritones who are over six foot tall, but I just wanted to be there.
I felt like one day in New York city, if I wasn't in Midtown, it was, it was a waste of my time. But. I ended up going on tour with Beauty and the Beast, like four weeks after moving there. Just cause I was going to every audition. It was like a random Saturday morning. They were looking for a tumbling carpet to understudy the LeFou.
And I knew how to do those things. Those were in my skillset. So, I got the job. And when I got on the job, I quickly realized I'm surrounded by people who have a college education. I'm surrounded by people who are 5, 10 years older than me who have these life experiences. So, my insecurity was like, I don't know what they know and I'm behind.
And like, yes, I get this job, but like, who am I to be here? I did some cartwheels and sang Be Our Guest, and now I'm here. Like this can't be real. So, from that moment on, I just kind of committed to, to this day. I love reading books. Cause I feel like I'm behind, even though I'm 27 years old, you know? Yeah.
Christina Peña: I am also 27 years old, so you're not behind.
Tony d'Alelio: Yes. Come on.
Christina Peña: That's interesting because I was always taught that college is the way to go.
Tony d'Alelio: Of course.
Christina Peña: But I was also raised by engineers, who that was their background. And so, college is the way to go more school all the time.
Tony d'Alelio: Yes.
Christina Peña: But I absolutely agree with that with what we do. You might not need a college education. Don't tell my mother.
Tony d'Alelio: Do you need an education? Yes, do is training. Great. Absolutely. I think you just have to ask the question, like, do I need a degree to go be a doctor or an engineer. I need in my basket to go do those things?
Christina Peña: I also think that it's really, I, the reason I started with this is because I talk about this all the time right now, because with college and the pandemic and seeing what is going to happen in the next year, I'm very curious if a lot of people just won't get educations.
Tony d'Alelio: Truly, truly. And if our professional spaces are moving and changing, the educational ones are too. It is a mystery to me. I wish every theater student listening to this podcast right now, the best of luck. And commit to being a student for life. Cause even when you get that diploma, that it ain't over honey.
Christina Peña: It's a piece of paper. It doesn't mean much. Yeah. It's a very expensive piece of paper.
Tony d'Alelio: Keep going,
Christina Peña: keep going. Okay. So, I'm really curious. How you then transitioned from being a performer. You've done four national tours, I believe? And several other things as well. How you transitioned from being a dancer and a performer to a choreographer and director?
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah. I think it was, it was born out of necessity because as I was working professionally as an actor and interpreting other people's work, stepping in to play, like, or to sing songs, someone else wrote. It only took me a couple of nos, like Newsies being one of them to hear like, oh, you didn't say no to my skillset or my talent, you said no to my identity.
And you said no to how I carry my body, which is in a very feminine way. I mean, you can hear my speaking voice. I'm, it's very high pitched. I'm mis-gendered all the time when you're only listening to my voice, you know? So, I, I know that. My identity falls on many spectrums and in the commercial musical theater industry, like you have to be either way over here or way over there.
Like it's super constricting in terms of who you have to show up as for other people. So, granted with that said the projects I have done, I have always felt very seen specifically doing This Ain't No Disco off-Broadway. But. It was doing This Ain't No Disco in 2018 where I was in a cast of people who not just were different.
All of us had these like really big dreams to like write the album, write the book, start the project. And I was seeing people around me come from similar situations I was in and I just had to dance and I had something to say. And my brother and I started our web series that year, where we got all of our friends together who felt the same about just wanting to show up as ourselves. So, we made work for ourselves.
Christina Peña: I love that. And I think that that's a very real thing that we all grapple with in the arts, which is sad that out of necessity, we have to become other things.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah.
Christina Peña: But yeah. Also, you said this most powerful thing I've ever heard probably, as you said, they said no to my identity.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah. Yeah. They said no. And I said, okay. No, thank you as well. Like I'm going to keep walking.
Christina Peña: I feel like that's something that everyone who is, I hate this word, but everyone who is marginalized has to deal with. And I also like you went to every audition possible when I was 19.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah.
Christina Peña: One person's going to say yes. One person has to say yes.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah.
Christina Peña: And eventually they do, but it's, I don't know. Sometimes it's like, they're not going to know what they want until you're standing right in front of them. And that's the worst part of theater.
Tony d'Alelio: Exactly. Exactly. It's the playing by someone else's game. Just hearing you tell that story.
I have this image of like 19-year-old Christina being like, does anyone want to play with me? Does anyone want to create? And it's like, I do like over here, you know
Christina Peña: Yeah. Everything I did was with friends for a long time.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah. Yeah. It makes me want to go down to, or jump in a time machine and go back to those like audition holding rooms and be like, hey guys, do not put your worth into the decisions being made in this building, because this is someone else's circus.
Like if we want to feel good and feel empowered. Let's go make something.
Christina Peña: Yeah. It's, it's all we do.
Tony d'Alelio: I love it.
Christina Peña: Especially with the pandemic. I keep bringing it up. It's sad that we're in a pandemic, but our industry didn't move forward. Like we, we're not going to stop. Artists were not going to stop. And so, we had to move ourselves forward by making our own work.
Tony d'Alelio: Yes, yes. Something that made me. Feel kind of like cool. And like I had a leg up, was hearing her lovely teacher, Jen Waldman say "Broadway doesn't exist right now." And it kind of like demystified this thing in the sky. That's like Broadway is going to solve all your problems.
Broadway's the dream come true. Okay. Well, she's not here, but we are. And I think what it revealed is Broadway is not like a magical place. It's people, it's like a community of people. And I think that's been my favorite aha over the frickin pandemic.
Christina Peña: Yeah. And as someone who's never gone to Broadway. I don't, I don't know if I need to anymore.
Tony d'Alelio: No.
Christina Peña: Yeah. It's very strange to say that the dreams of five-year-old Christina are very different than 27-year-old Christina.
Tony d'Alelio: Hm. Well, I mean, let me ask you five-year-old Christina, what was part of that dream? Like what were the details of the dream? Like after you said Broadway, like what went with it?
Christina Peña: Oh, my gosh. I've never had someone turn a question on me like this. Wow. Okay. I think where I wanted, I wanted to be with people who wanted to make art. That's essentially what it was. I also wanted to be a ballerina astronaut. That was also my other dream.
Tony d'Alelio: Yes.
Christina Peña: So probably that I do that limits did not exist and I could do whatever I wanted to with people at one to do it too.
Tony d'Alelio: Well, I think you're doing that. And, and I know you're doing that.
Christina Peña: Thank you so much.
Tony d'Alelio: Yes. Well, you know how people throw around, like living the dream. It's like, wait, but really though, like look around, I think we're, we're here. We're we leading the lives we wished to lead.
Christina Peña: But also like, what is a dream?
Tony d'Alelio: Dang?
Christina Peña: That's a big thing to say is, you know.
Tony d'Alelio: Dang. What is a dream? Jeez. Now feels like the appropriate time to plug my web series Daydream on IGTV. What is a dream?
Christina Peña: That's a very good web series too.
Tony d'Alelio: Oh, thank you.
Christina Peña: You've done a lot of film as directing over the pandemic. So, your web series started in 2018 and then I've seen you at least do 365 Feet Away, which is fantastic.
And everyone should go watch it because it was probably the best film that came out of our, our film class we took together. Fantastic. You also did Music and the Outfield. Another fantastic piece. Just like...
Tony d'Alelio: thank you.
Christina Peña: And you've done. I've watched all of cyber -esque. Cyber?
Tony d'Alelio: Cyberlesque.
Christina Peña: Cyberlesque.
Tony d'Alelio: Yes. Yes, oh well. Thank you.
Christina Peña: Fabulous.
Tony d'Alelio: Thank you. I fricking love film. I do. How I like to break it down like my favorite thing about film is when you're in the audience watching a piece of theater as a choreographer, if the choreography is dancer looks over their shoulder, roll it and snap, the audience is like seeing one image.
But if we were to take that piece of choreography on film, I could go wide shot establishing this person in an empty space, close up on the head looking, panned down to the wrist that then does the snaps like there, you're able to take the audience on this like hyper controlled ride that I'm able to like choreograph where the audiences eye is. Instead of like in the balcony or the mezzanine.
Christina Peña: You also get to see all the details. And I think that's what we miss when we look at a stage picture.
Tony d'Alelio: Exactly, exactly. It really takes a really well-crafted actor to be on stage. And for us to pick up on that kind of detail, you know, shout out to Patti LuPone, she's like the most larger than life detail oriented actor ever. Maybe. Side note.
Christina Peña: I saw her speak once about Company. She spent 15 minutes going into detail about Being Alive and she's not even in the song.
Tony d'Alelio: Wow. But she's listening. She was in that rehearsal room listening.
Christina Peña: It was just, it was just fantastic.
Tony d'Alelio: Mm, see Patti is a student for life.
Christina Peña: Yes.
Tony d'Alelio: Student for life. Wow.
Christina Peña: Even with her Juilliard education.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah.
Christina Peña: I can't that's so good.
Tony d'Alelio: Wow. Wow.
Christina Peña: Well, so tell me more about. What it's like to create right now and what it's like for you, because I know that you are a choreographer, a dancer, a director, an actor, all these things, but what is it like when you just want to make something right now?
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah. When I just want to make something right now in this moment, I've kind of really been needing like privacy almost like, and letting it be a private thing. No, that I don't necessarily like have to share it or like send it someplace. And for me, taking that pressure off of it is freeing. Now with that said, when I'm creating, I think of a very specific person in mind. Like right now, if I'm creating a dance, I'll think of like a dancer I'm obsessed with. Like this girl I'm in class, her name is Simone. I can't take my eyes off of her. I was feeling so uninspired to dance and I just thought, what would it look like, if I made a piece for Simone? And this is going to sound very like witchy and woo-wooy but it was almost like my body was like possessed by a different kind of energy. And it was moving for her.
Now the privacy thing is if I had people watching me, I don't know if I would have been in a flow or not. However, I was able to like, I don't know, noodle and, and find something new in getting out of my body. I don't know if that made any sense.
Christina Peña: It makes a lot of sense.
Tony d'Alelio: Oh, thanks. But yeah, creating right now. It's like a, it's a, it's a safe, it's my little safe space, I guess.
Christina Peña: I feel like we've also as a, as an industry gone from sharing everything to now, it's like, I don't, I have to share everything. I don't have to let you see what I've made.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah.
Christina Peña: It can be just to make, to make.
Tony d'Alelio: Exactly, exactly. Or sometimes I'll just, I'll send something to my mom. Like if it's a poem or like me dancing in the backyard. Being an idiot where if like my imposter syndrome or whatever you want to call, it shows up. I'll be like, you know what, I'm sending it to my mom. And for me, it's like, I don't know if I'm looking for validation or praise or anything like that. I think it's just, I want to like move her emotionally you know? And yeah. Which surprise works every time with a mom.
Christina Peña: I also, I spent the last year with my mother. Love for dearly. But every time I make something and she listens to it or says anything about it, it makes me realize that, oh, here's your investment back is what I used to say. Here's what you've invested in for so long. I've done it.
Tony d'Alelio: That's a good reminder. It's like our parents want to see what they invested in. Of course, they want to see it. And I feel like a parent isn't, the parent isn't looking for flaws, or we're looking at it from a judgmental place. You know, it really is, you could fall on your face and they would be the happiest ever, you know.
Christina Peña: Or they'd laugh because they know that you need a laugh track.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, it makes me think, you know, I feel like our friends. We should give our friends more credit. I feel like friends also watch our work through that lens. You know just cause they're here to support forever.
Christina Peña: If they don't, they're not a friend.
Tony d'Alelio: Exactly. I was like, the good ones are anyway.
Christina Peña: I have many friends, friends with quotation marks cause you can't see me, who will critique my work when not asked for.
Tony d'Alelio: Yikes.
Christina Peña: I'm like, you're not over here on a friend then.
Tony d'Alelio: I've had, yeah, I've run into some really tricky things in that department. And that's another podcast for another day.
Christina Peña: Crazy. Okay. So, I want to talk more about this because I've heard you talk about it. And I want people to know, talked about music and the outfield and how you play Cassie and get to do The Music and The Mirror dance. I've heard you talk about it and I'm obsessed with this idea of a gender swap Chorus Line.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Or even a gender free, gender neutral, non-binary Chorus Line. Because, and let me say why.
So, a Chorus Line is probably my favorite musical, because it is like the dancer’s story. I think the thing about like musicals and movies is it's hard to compare them, but a Chorus Line takes number one for me, because it's an ensemble piece. It is the dancer’s tale. The musical happens in real time. So, it kind of feels like immersive theater.
Like the audience is at the audition in the theater. Hearing these stories, human stories, which is wonderful, even across like cultural lines, gender, race. So, when you audition for a Chorus Line these days, which I love that the Michael Bennett umbrella has like it states so true. And the people who uphold his vision and Bob Avian, may he rest in peace and power.
They, they uphold that vision, but I think what's confusing to me about auditioning for those shows is the first thing they look at is your race and your gender. And even more detailed it's like, how old do you look? How much muscle do you have on your body? Where do you carry your weight? How masculine are you?
It's confusing why we're putting that into practice today. So, my like dream for a Chorus Line is to have a room full of dancers and find like, what is the essence of Val? Yeah. I'm just, I'm really passionate about that show because it's the dancer’s tale.
Christina Peña: I agree.
Tony d'Alelio: Thank you.
Christina Peña: Funny story, it was the first show I ever saw or that I remember seeing. I was seven way to really snatch up, but I agree. And I find it interesting that everyone goes for the one thing that they look like, not what they feel like. And I feel like the beauty of Chorus Line, is that they all sat down, got drunk and recorded a bunch of tapes talking.
Tony d'Alelio: Yes.
Christina Peña: And we don't have that anymore. Everything now is a cookie cutter of things that already exist.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah.
Christina Peña: I totally understand your point of view and where you want to go and think it's fantastic.
Tony d'Alelio: Thank you. Thank you. I guess more like the last things I'll say is I feel like, when you keep people restricted to like doing one thing, it, it just like creates such a divide within the cast or like, and it perpetuates this thing that, you know, that we even believe.
Like I, in real time, like I'll be hanging out with my friends I'll be sharing my experience as a sexually liberated gay man, and me thinking this is exclusive to the cis gay male experience and my girlfriends are like, well, wait a second. It's not just a you thing, like I also have a similar story. So, and I, and I, and I say that the stories that come out of our mouths matter, who tells those stories really does matter because there is a seven-year-old Christina Peña in the audience, you know. Which you better work at a Chorus Line. Okay.
Christina Peña: I think the same way as a director. I look at shows, that meant so much to me as a child and how can I make them new or how can I make them better and not the same show that I saw 20 years ago. Because we've evolved so much as a society and as people, and as what we understand, we understand so much more. We found out so much more about technology. About life. And so how can we bring all of that into shows that affected us as children?
Tony d'Alelio: Yes, to everything you just said. It's like having to revive a piece of work or to like pull something out of the vault from like 1970, 1980 something. It's like, you have to know where that was contextually. And then where are we now, you know, moving forward with.
Christina Peña: Well and why it was the way it was.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah.
Christina Peña: I think about Show Boat a lot and my mother has opinions about Show Boat but we talk about it because she is a pianist and believes that when it was written, it was written in a way to liberate and bring awareness to slavery, which is why it was written, how it was written.
But when you look at it now, that's not what it says. That's not what they showed. That's not what they did, but I didn't know what it was like to live in the twenties. I'm biased even there.
Tony d'Alelio: It reminds me of the conversation we were having about the West Side Story revival, the most recent revival, which is... yeah. How do you think the West Side revival plays into this conversation?
Christina Peña: Oh, my gosh. Well, I've never talked about my passion for the West Side Story show on this podcast, but I have a severe passion for the show. As a Mexican woman, I didn't really see myself on stage and that's a show that I love dearly and is so close to my heart and the revival....
So, what I will say is I understand where the revival was going and what they were trying to say. And there are moments that as a woman of color, severely affect me. But there are also moments that are just too much for no reason. Like you don't need a fight scene shirtless that doesn't add to the story.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah. The, the aesthetic was strong.
Christina Peña: I have never seen a gang... Well, okay. So, I've never seen a gang fight, but I've never seen a fight where just like everyone shows up shirtless.
Tony d'Alelio: I know. I know. I know I will, I will agree with you that, I saw where they were going with this. Yes. It's something new. It's also like the creative team is European and like they were commenting on American culture.
I also found it interesting that the prologue of West Side Story that Leonard Bernstein wrote was so many peaks and valleys and the intricacies was spent with everyone standing in a single file line on stage and they got their close-up. And the New York times I was, I was watching, I was like, huh. And I think the New York times called it like a moody Calvin Klein close up and it, and I'm going to be honest. It took me out of the story for a good five minutes of the epic close-ups. I wasn't sure what story we were telling either, but you know what, not my project.
Christina Peña: But also, I think, think about, and there's other things wrong with the show, mainly the Bernardo casting. But think about the nine-year-olds. The nine-year-old Tony and the nine-year-old Christina walking into that theater and what they see.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah. Yeah. I'd be like, okay. The world is a dark, violent place and there is no coming back. Wow. Honestly, like putting it through the lens of like, what would the nine-year-old version of ourselves think I would, I would see conflict with zero revolve, honestly.
Christina Peña: And I would see everyone who looks like me, not celebrated at all.
Tony d'Alelio: No.
Christina Peña: And killed and very hyper-sexualized even more than the original. All the Puerto Ricans are super sexual on that show, which is like, not a bad thing because I think Latin culture is very sexual, but it's so it just pushes too far. Here’s The thing is, how do you... And as a director and choreographer for you, probably think about this as, how do you push and not push too far?
Cause someone's going to get offended, no matter what you do, someone's going to get offended.
Tony d'Alelio: Of course, of course. Yeah. It goes back to the like, why are we telling this story? And what do we want the audience to take away? One thing that I found confusing was during the Tonight quintet, which is like so epic instead of like musical staging happening.
It was the video montage reel that looked like an Instagram feed of like B roll going throughout New York city. So, it was like, it was, it was weird. Like seeing that show, it was like, I'm watching this as a theater goer, but now am I watching this as like a film watcher?
And then when it was the film work, it was. It was the moody close-ups and like the vibes were strong, but if I'm looking to vibe, I think I'm going to go somewhere else. I don't know if I want to like vibe at West Side Story on Broadway.
Christina Peña: I wouldn't mind the idea of what we talked about before seeing the detail.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah.
Christina Peña: Like if it was just cameras on stage with the live. Sorry for everyone who hasn't seen West Side Story. If it was just cameras onstage live and getting that detail, I feel like that would be very different than the idea of bringing in video of people walking down the street or streets in New York city. Like it just.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah. Yeah. Like, why are we here?
Christina Peña: I don't know. I feel like it's funny too. Cause the now were on a West Side Story kick, the movie is coming out and so...
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah.
Christina Peña: The movie I haven't seen it, but what I have seen of it is it's trying to stay as close to the original story as possible.
So, to think about when they were both created in 2019, how, like someone went so far in one direction and then someone went so far in the idea of let's keep it as safe as possible.
Tony d'Alelio: What I can gather from what, for this movie, what I've heard, my friends who had worked on it were saying, and what they were really kind of stressing throughout the audition process is that contextually, Spielberg wanted to keep the film in the fifties because us as an audience, like we can look back on that time.
Like we did not live then. And so therefore we can watch a story, be told in a, in a musical way. Like there's a, there's almost like this. We're observing it. And I think to make a piece to set it and current day, in a way, it's almost like, okay, well, the gang relations between like the sharks and the jets don't exist anymore.
Like it's so much more nuanced and complicated than that, which I circling back to the West Side revival, even talking about it right now, I'm having a hard time because I don't know if I'm watching it as like a filmmaker, a theater goer, it's like a contemporary piece using material that was written 60 some odd years ago.
So, it's confusing for a, in lot of different ways with that said I'm, I'm really excited for this film. Because it, what I love is it's a movie musical that hired actors out of New York city. And I think sometimes when you watch the movie musicals where like the principles, or even down to like the ensemble dancers are all out of Los Angeles, just looking at like theater dance and commercial dance are very different.
Are there different styles and genres in the art form of dancing? So, I'm so excited to watch an ensemble of like New York theater dancers, who all of those dancers can sing and act and hold their own. And I just love that we're going to see that on the big screen. And it's so many people we know I'm like getting choked up, just thinking about it. Yeah. I love musicals.
Christina Peña: A hundred percent agreed and it's so interesting. Okay. My last thought on West Side Story.
Yes.
You couldn't set it modern day. I thought about this really hard. You couldn't set it modern day because cell phones exist.
Tony d'Alelio: Yep.
Christina Peña: And she would just text Tony to not go.
Tony d'Alelio: Okay. Texting though, like Maria, did you send the snap or not?
Like, I don't want to hear it. Chino. I don't want to hear about the miss information.
Christina Peña: She'd be all in those DMS. It would just...
Tony d'Alelio: Yes. And don't the kids. Maria's what? She's 16, 18. She's a kid. I know the kids are on Snapchat. I know the kids can do record like GPS locator. Plot points.
Christina Peña: Absolutely plot points, but yeah, I'm also very excited for New York dancers in the film. I also have friends in the film. It's going to be fantastic. It was filmed on 177th street, because best believe my ass lived on 178th street and I was out there watching them dance.
I just, oh my God. It's so funny. When you think about all the musicals coming out in the next year or two and just what it's going to do again for the children and for us and for our parents who love theater.
I don't know. I just. Also, to see Rita Moreno.
Tony d'Alelio: I know also like the lineage, like the lineage of like theatrical Broadway diva history to see like Rita on screen with Ariana DeBose, those two women, it's just. It's beyond.
Christina Peña: If Chita Rivera comes out, I'm going to cry.
Tony d'Alelio: I feel like they're saving her, right?
Like, she's gotta be someone like.
Christina Peña: Just like, just like an ode to Chita. I would just.
Tony d'Alelio: I have, can I share a Chita Rivera story.
Christina Peña: Please.
Tony d'Alelio: My good friend and pal Pixie Aventura took me to Carnegie hall to see Chita and Chita's telling the story. And she was like, I was walking down the street and, you know, I see a bus go by for the West Side Story revival and I'm like, wow, that's great.
Then I see a bus go by for Chicago and she's like, wow, good times, good times. And then she passes a poster for Bye Bye Birdie. And she goes, do I need to be somewhere at eight o'clock? She's like, everyone's doing my shows, but me.
Christina Peña: Oh my God.
Tony d'Alelio: A legend.
Christina Peña: She has not lost like a whip or a snap. either.
Tony d'Alelio: No. And let it be known in that concert. She was dancing. Like the leg went up. And back down.
Christina Peña: I can't. I can't, uh, yeah. I just like, think about the legends of our craft. Yeah. That have gotten older. Okay. This is sad, not sad, but like the ones that have gone older that the younger generation don't know.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah. Yeah.
Christina Peña: I feel like there's a disconnect in people, our age and a little older. And then like at the next generation of theater makers and how they kind of have like lost the education part of theater.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah. Well, for them like old legends and divas are like, the original Elphabas to them are like old legends. It's like, excuse me. I, I teach this class called connect the steps and it's to get kids like understanding like physical storytelling and how can I express my feelings and emotions when I'm dancing and act, you know.
And part of their homework, I kid you not is. I give them YouTube links as like resource material. And it's so foreign. Like they don't. Like going on YouTube and finding, I'm sorry, a bootleg or like old, like archive, even if it's like a Rosie O'Donnell show, like archived 1990 something Good Morning America performance.
Like they all exist out there on the internet and the kids don't know, but maybe all they need is a little cookie. And just a little, like go, go down this rabbit hole, you know, stop watching Tik TOk and rotting your brain and go rot your brain with Sutton Foster, honey, as a 21-year-old.
Christina Peña: Okay. First off, I love that you're a teacher. I think that teachers make the best directors and choreographers. A hundred percent because...
Tony d'Alelio: thank you.
Christina Peña: The idea of talking to people and talking to a generation that doesn't know anything, and then going to a cast, who doesn't know anything and teaching them just this juxtaposition, it's fantastic.
Yeah. And then shout out to Jorge who was on here a couple weeks ago. He said the old movies, like the seventies, eighties, and nineties, and I lost it, but it's really true that the older things. We're getting old, we're getting old. I think that's all the I miss about theater and I miss.
And the new stuff that's being made is we are forgetting where we came from. So, we don't know where to go. So, we're making the same mistakes.
Tony d'Alelio: Tea.
Christina Peña: Over and over again. Yeah. Like we don't need Mrs. Doubtfire the musical, because we should have learned from Tootsie the musical.
Tony d'Alelio: I. Oh my God. You're you're right. My, my mother Beth, shout out to Beth. I hope you meet her one day.
Christina Peña: I can't wait.
Tony d'Alelio: We were on a trip in the city and I didn't know anything about Tootsie. And we were trying to think about what to see and like, just based on like the logo I'm like, this looks like some classic something that like, mom would like. I'm like, mom, what about Tootsie?
And without missing a beat, she was like, is that the musical about a man dressing as a woman to make it easier to get a job. I was like, oh, got it, got it. Got it. You know,
Christina Peña: Yes
Tony d'Alelio: Mom legend!
Moving, moving on. Yeah. Geez. It's worth saying, I need to like, honestly bring to the table, like the counter argument. You know, how you hear, like, after a show at the bar, like talk, I'm gonna leave this person anonymous, but the quote was what we don't need on Broadway is these new musicals, like the Prom.
Like, and they were trying to make this point that like, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And I had to like deconstruct for this person. This is how things are broken. Like, these are ways that, like, I never saw myself on stage and other people did not see themselves on stage.
And their argument was that you can't take kids to a family-friendly show like the Prom. And I said like, what's not, family-friendly about it and she... And I'm like waiting for her to like, remember that I am also a gay person, but like here, she's thinking like lesbians in her mind and she's like, well, you can't see two girls kissing on stage.
And I was like, well, do you think that like my relationship with my boyfriend at the time, like, do you think that's family-friendly or inappropriate and the conversations, she didn't know what to say. The conversation ended and she left, like she straight up left the bar and I just like wonder we haven't like talked, but I wonder, I often think about her, like wondering, like, has her mind changed?
And I really hope it has. You know, and all it took was literally pointing at a human being, which was myself being like these ideas you have that are quite ignorant. You're not seeing what's in front of you. And like this affects someone that you're talking to. And I share that because there are people out there, who think like, well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Or, you know, we love things the old-fashioned way. It's like, what do you mean by old fashioned? You know that like people have been oppressed throughout history, right? How old are we talking? And I'm laughing. Cause it's uncomfortable.
Christina Peña: I understand argument. if it ain't broke don't fix it like, I get, we need to make money in this world.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah.
Christina Peña: I get it. But there are ways to do it that are still inclusive and diverse and equitable for all. The formulaic equation does not change.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah.
Christina Peña: You still get results. I dunno. I still think they should have cast a black Dolly in Hello, Dolly and it would've been just as good.
Tony d'Alelio: Right?
Christina Peña: Just as good. That's awful that your friend said that, but it's also true that some people don't see the problems in front of them. I've never seen myself on stage. There's never been a Mexican American character. That's not true. There's been some but they're very rare people who made the comment of, you know, I'm white and I'll never get a role again.
It's just like, it doesn't matter if you're the most talented. You're the most talented, I just want space to be able to get into that room.
Tony d'Alelio: Yes ma'am.
Christina Peña: And I think that's what people miss in shows like the Prom. I just want to be in the room, but I just want to be able to be a lesbian and be on stage as well. I just want to be able to do that.
Tony d'Alelio: Exactly. And what I love about the Prom is that it centers not just like one person, one, it's a love story. And like seeing someone, seeing a queer person just like unapologetically fall in love. And like, I don't know, it's just. That that to me is what inclusive theater looks like. And if you're so concerned of like, well, this music isn't the best, or this is cheesy, or I didn't like the choreography. It's like, okay. But like, step one is we have to recognize what this means in terms of creating space for others.
Christina Peña: Well and step two is people have to stop auditioning for it if they're not right for the role. Like the movie, even though the movie was fantastic, it did not make space for women who like other women.
Tony d'Alelio: It's true. It's true.
Christina Peña: I don't know. It's crazy. The nuanced things that we have to think about now when we create shows.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah.
Christina Peña: But we should think about them and we need to think about them. But when people don't, why don't you just think about this? Fun Home should not have a bunch of cis straight women on stage. It just shouldn't.
Tony d'Alelio: Exactly. I think the easiest question to ask is, is this a story that I can tell with my, like with my skillset, with my identity and then like the follow-up is like, what does it mean for me to tell this story? And if it brings you to tears, and if you find something within yourself and you're like, oh my gosh, maybe this is going to bring something out of me that I didn't know.
Awesome. Go on that journey. If it means that you're taking an opportunity from someone, maybe we should pass. Use our skills and talents in another way. And that's for the bigger picture. You know.
Christina Peña: Mm. So, good. You're so smart.
Tony d'Alelio: Am I? At some things Christina, you should ask, ask the people that spend a lot of time with me and they're like, boy, you need to learn how to shut a door.
Christina Peña: It's okay. My mother. Love her. Well, her name's Jenny. Beth and Jenny can be friends.
Tony d'Alelio: Yes.
Christina Peña: She will knock knock me down a peg or two every once in a while.
Tony d'Alelio: Oh, my God. We need Jenny.
Christina Peña: Yes, it's fantastic. She is. She has a special one. I love this conversation.
Tony d'Alelio: Me too.
Christina Peña: I could talk to you for hours.
Tony d'Alelio: Me too. Wow we are going in. I highly suggest listening to this episode, if you're like on your way to an audition, like as those happen in Pearl studios. Hun and throw on the earbuds, whatever they're called, let's unpack.
Christina Peña: I think the problem I find is that people aren't having these conversations, I will respect you so much more. I can sit down and talk to me about what you think then if you just take a role.
Tony d'Alelio: Exactly. Exactly. There was. Um, this is interesting. So, I think my next job I'll be swinging or, uh, so...
Christina Peña: we love a swing.
Tony d'Alelio: Love it. I'm honestly kind of scared. And with that, like in this particular play, there are different characters, obviously have different identities and stuff.
And so, I, the question I'm asking myself right now is, you know, of course I want to do my part as a swing and step in where is needed. In the same breath. I want to step into roles where it's like appropriate, you know, for the story. Cause like that, that's what we're here to serve. You know, I think like one of the characters like commits a crime, like one character is helpful.
One is problematic. And I think I can tell those stories, but still though, they're going to be questions I'm asking and I have no problem talking to a stage manager. Or director saying like, Hey, I think what this, what this means for me to play this role could actually be harmful. I don't know. I don't want to limit myself at the same time.
You have to be aware and conscious of like, what does it mean to say something on a stage because it matters.
Christina Peña: And who's watching it and what are they going to learn from it? Whether it be my sixty-year-old grandmother who still goes to shows or nine-year-old Tony or five-year-old Christina, like what are they all going to get from the show?
I don't know. Sometimes, sometimes I think about, are they going to learn more by seeing me or seeing someone else? And then how do I make it everything in my power to be the best thing that they see that day. Just like the craziness of our, our worlds we live in.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah.
Christina Peña: I think you'd be an amazing swing.
Tony d'Alelio: Oh, thanks. Even when I'm not swinging my like psycho brain, I get so bored. I'm like, what would this look like? Reversed.
Christina Peña: It's funny because whenever I do shows, I think about. What if I was the other character.
Tony d'Alelio: Yeah.
Christina Peña: What if I was their role? Like what would that be like?
Tony d'Alelio: Right. I feel like Jen Waldman has an acting exercise similar to that.
Christina Peña: We love Jen Waldman on this podcast.
Tony d'Alelio: Exactly. All day every day, baby.
Christina Peña: Oh gosh. Okay. I'm going to ask our last two questions.
Tony d'Alelio: All right. Hit me.
Christina Peña: What is one piece of advice you have for 16-year-old, Tony?
Tony d'Alelio: Oh, my God. Keep... Geez this is heavy, but like 16-year-old Ton, whole the women who are raising you right now and are supporting you and surrounding you will be there for life.
So, trust them and listen to them. You're going to want to rebel against the hard work with partying, and that will get you. Nowhere and those people are fake.
Christina Peña: Tea!
Tony d'Alelio: All right. Maybe I feel like every 16-year-old needs to hear that, that, and I think just like, keep listening to your gut because your intuition is right.
No one knows what's best for you, except for you. And if any person, especially a teacher, especially people of power, if they, for one moment make you feel shame that has everything to do with them and nothing to do with you. Okay. That's really it. I think that sums it up.
Christina Peña: My jaws on the floor.
Tony d'Alelio: You'd be surprised how many, like, I'll just say that.
Christina Peña: I would. Let me tell you I would not be surprised.
Tony d'Alelio: It's weird. I honestly, I feel for the older, the generation of gay men that came, you know, before my own, there's a lot of like inner homophobia and misogyny in there that like, I'm just, I'm really trying to lead with understanding and trying to be gentle about it and like helping them unlearn those things.
It's just, sometimes it hurts when it's like projected onto you here to, I don't know, support those guys too. Just sometimes crazy when they're also like your teacher. Yeah. Yes. And that's, that's all, I'll say that's all I'll say.
Christina Peña: Especially in an industry full of gay men.
Tony d'Alelio: Hm. Be kind to one another, y'all.
Christina Peña: Be kind to one another. Then what is one hope you have for the future?
Tony d'Alelio: For the future. I, my hope for the future is that like theater students today in school, before they have like gotten into the professional world, because like that, that is our future. I hope that they show up in professional spaces, just with like the standards of come, as you are, think and say, like what you feel and what matters to you and do so like in a respectful manner and in a kind manner.
That is my hope for the future, because I think if we lead with authenticity and kindness, we're in really good shape and to eradicate white supremacy.
Christina Peña: I think that's really interesting. Because I focus on all the work. I do so much in people who are making my space and never the people that are walking into the space.
Tony d'Alelio: Okay. Yes.
Christina Peña: So that's something that I need to think about.
Tony d'Alelio: Yes. Honestly, in a way, like the next time we encounter a young person, like let's both like hold each other accountable to be like, listen, no pressure, but you're the future. Keep it up.
Christina Peña: You're so smart.
Tony d'Alelio: Goodness.
Christina Peña: So good.
Tony d'Alelio: What a joy speaking with you, Christina, this is my day off. Normally I'm working as a barista, which I love. I love that team over there, but to sit down with a brilliant artist, such as yourself. And like not work right now. I don't know this. This is so playful and, and I really hope we brought some new ideas into the universe and I hope whoever listened to this conversation is feeling inspired in some way and can like spark conversations in your circle of people.
Madge Dietrich: It's an obsession. Talking to people. Hearing their stories. Learning new lessons. Telling the truth. Defying categories. Intellectual jam session. Passing the mic. Making voices heard and more. She's changing minds and conversations. Sharing her appreciation. Taking charge of her creation. This is Conversations with a Mixed Chick.