Christina sits down with Ivory Mckay, artist, writer, and overall wonderful human being. They discuss stepping into your joy, the amazingness of Sister Act, and acknowledging the past as we move forward to create a better world. It is truly a pleasure to share Ivory's story, the world deserves to hear it!
Ivory's Instagram: @ivorymckay
Ivory's Fun Plugs:
Want to connect with the Mixed Chick?
Instagram: @conversationswithamixedchick
Christina's Instagram: @primadonnapena
Email: conversationswithamixedchick@gmail.com
Musical Theme by Madge and Graphic by Jeannine
Christina Peña: Welcome to Conversations with a Mixed Chick. I'm your host and resident mixed chick, Christina Peña. Every week, I get to sit down and have conversations with humans that I am obsessed with. Each episode is filled with individual unique stories that I believe the world needs to hear.
On today's episode, our very first episode, I have the pleasure of talking with Ivory McKay. Ivory leads with joy and a sense of belonging. He is a fantastic writer who loves being gay and black through laughs smiles and the occasional Sister Act quote. We explore his unique story together.
Madge Dietrich: She's changing minds and conversations. Sharing her appreciation. Taking charge of her creation. This is Conversations with a Mixed Chick.
Christina Peña: Hello.
Ivory McKay: Hey, how are you?
Christina Peña: Hi, welcome. Are you excited? I'm excited. You're here.
Ivory McKay: I'm really excited. I'm not, I'm really excited to talk to you. Like I feel like I just have always wanted this moment to happen just us and I love it.
Christina Peña: Aw. Okay. I'm honored and speechless. And I'm ready to leave now. Goodbye. No, no, no, I'm ready. We're going to be here when and do it together
Ivory McKay: You being speechless. That's funny. It's funny. Actually. Go ahead, doll.
Christina Peña: Okay. All right. Well then let's start with the hard question. Are you ready?
Ivory McKay: Yes. I am.
Christina Peña: What does it mean to be unapologetically Ivory?
Ivory McKay: Ooh. Okay. Hearing you live, say this. It means me stepping into my joy more, not apologizing for it, standing up for what I believe in more. I have to tell you that I've always allowed people to squander my joy, because I know you witnessed when you enter a room and you are acquainted with some of the people in it, you witnessed certain eye-rolls that you don't, that they think they're hiding, but I dunno, being a person of color and being gay, you like are coding a lot.
So my observation skills are so well sharpened. So when you witness things like that, I don't know. It takes you, it takes a breath away out of, out of the joy. And I've allowed that to really, really hurt me. I can tell you that. And I don't mean like this exaggerated happiness, you know, like put on presentation joy. I mean something that's deep and peaceful and it's how I drive. I love being black, I love being gay. I love, what I stand for with how I love human connection. I love, I want to celebrate that I am a positive light and that I care about my family. They have taught me a lot.
This is a really interesting question because this is a really weird moment that I started to embrace my joy and you're going to laugh because it was taught to me during. I was watching the movie again, Sister Act the first one and Kathy Najimy is playing that upbeat nun and they're doing their activity and Whoopi Goldberg, Mary Clarence asked her, you know, why are you always this way? Are you always this positive? And she's like, I've always been. I don't know, I've just always been upbeat. And I remember getting really emotional every time I hear that because it's like, it's okay to be upbeat. I've had a lot of dark things happen and it doesn't mean you have to like use them to justify your existence in spaces. And on this planet, I've always been upbeat.
Otherwise I don't think it would have survived it. It's just something my parents knew about me whenever I had an energy burst, they would always say, go run around the backyard. Like it was just they knew, and that's how I've always been. And I can tell you that my joy and that upbeat thing of me has gotten me through so much.
And every time she says it, I get emotional and it's the most random thing, but it's the truth love as she said it. And now I started said, I've always been upbeat and I love it. And that's been being everything I've said, that's the list.
Christina Peña: That's amazing. And. It's very honest, because I believe you to be very upbeat in a beautiful way.
And when you're, when you're not, you don't apologize for not being upbeat, which is also beautiful because we are allowed to have down days and people don't, people think that that defines our, who we are as a person instead of like, Oh, it's one down day. I'm allowed to be optimistic 90% of the time and have 10% where, I don't feel good. And that's okay.
Ivory McKay: So yeah, yes, I agree completely. Yes. I used to apologize for it. Oh, Christina? Yes.
Christina Peña: I love that. So, I'm really curious about this idea of stepping into joy that you said, because I too find myself to be an optimist, but I've also had very hard times in my life as most people have.
And I wonder, what have you learned from it? First of all, like how did you come up with that? Because that's an amazing action step that we don't really think about when we talk about joy.
Ivory McKay: It's very, it’s, I think it's a very underestimated attribute I do. When we hear joy, we always think of the side of life is going right.
The side of life that is hopeful. The side of life, that is everything is sunny. Everything is okay. And that's a space where joy should exist. And I just know that. I have a wacky sense of humor; crazy things make me laugh. The oddest things made me laugh. People make me laugh. I always say when it sees something happen funny and you know, everyday I'm like, I couldn't have written that better because that is just real human beings living their life.
And I get tickled by it. I don't know. I just love that. I just know that it's a place for me. Joy has always been a place where I have thought I felt safe. Which is so odd to say that out loud, I've never, said it that way, I've always felt safe in my joy because it's always taken care of me. It's always reminding me of the hope.
It's always reminded me of you will get through. So, I always knew it was important to me. And it was so funny that I had it, like it was, I mean, my parents were great people. They raised all four of us. I'm the oldest of four. So, I mean, it wasn't this thing, I don't search for it because so much has happened.
We all have very dark things happen in our lives. And it just happenstance that, one of the things that I've been given was joy. And it's a peace knowing that it's going to turn out. Okay. I know that's what it is because it's not fake. I'm no longer am apologizing for. I'm no longer have to make an excuse for it.
Because as I have looked back on my life, I've always been able, it's always been there. I can tell you moments where it got me through. Clearly it was because, I had a moment where I, it's always why always like chuckle before a lot of things, because I know that it is of me. It's always been there.
I've always been able to be around different people with it. Mad, like its always been a great translator. It's always been a great handshake. Joy. It's always a great entrance into the room because it's an effervescent like snap of the air. So that's why I know it's important. I've never had to try to put it on.
I had to try to put happiness on, but never had to put joy on. Cause there is a difference. So yeah, that's what I mean by stepping into it.
Christina Peña: I found something you said really interesting. And it led me to think about the idea like, people can't take your joy.
Ivory McKay: Yes.
Christina Peña: There's something about joy that it, it belongs to us as individuals and especially as people of color and you as a queer man, I feel like there's, it's something that we own that we get to own and we get to choose when to show it when to not, and it's, it's ours. And a lot of what I experienced as a mixed-race woman, things are taken from me very easily...
Ivory McKay: Yes.
Christina Peña: And joy. Joy can't be. Cause joy is mine.
Ivory McKay: Yes.
Christina Peña: And you don't get to tell me how to feel.
Ivory McKay: No. I, yes, I agree. Stay at it's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. I love the title of your show, by the way. Thank you. I meant to say that before we started.
Yes. But yeah, no, but I agree with you. Can't take it away. That's why, when someone, I always say that to people, don't let anyone compromise your joy. I'm like, cause I'm real. It's true. Life will try.
Christina Peña: I love that... I love that you referenced Sister Act because Sister Act 2 changed my life.
Ivory McKay: Yes, it did!
Christina Peña: As a, as a young woman of color, I was like, Oh, I can be fun and happy and actually deal with like real consequences into the movie. Fascinating. I could talk about that for hours. Oh, my gosh.
Ivory McKay: The human experience. What?
Christina Peña: Oh, my God. I get to clap at the end. Like yeah.
My joy is on high right now. Love that. Okay. You also talked about. Standing up for what you believe in and not apologizing. And I feel like those are our beautiful things, because right now, in, in the world and with everything happening with race, there's a lot of, not apologizing, but there's not a lot of space to get things wrong.
And when you, when you step up and stand up for what you believe in, you can get things wrong and you can say the wrong thing to the wrong person. I think there's, there's a difference between like owning doing something and apologizing for doing something because I will, I will own my mistakes because it teaches me more as a person.
Ivory McKay: Christina. Yes. I can tell you now that I know that I'm happy that I'm standing up more. That I'm saying what I feel, but I have witnessed. And this is what I feel is the issue, it's my personal thing on it. It's where I just think that we're not talking about our pain, about the race, about whatever politics. We're not sometimes talking about it dark enough when we get the moment to speak and we're not allowing the space for people to grow and understand.
We will mention the word grace. We will say, we'll give you a safe space. We'll use all the lingo that demonstrates "Welcome" that says, "Hey, come on in. Let's talk." but when that moment occurs, I don't actually think we understand the responsibility we've taken on. I don't think we're absolutely willing.
People are not willing to give people the space to say the wrong things. Trip up on the words, not have complete thoughts end every sentence, in a comma. Like we're not like people are allowing this space. And it's that simple. It's that we're not allowing people the opportunity to understand. We want them to understand, we want them to get it. We're screaming. We're marching. We're not buying. We're canceling. We're doing all these things. All these topical actions, I call it. We're operating. I've been doing it like we've been operating a one foot of water. Everything has been of a shallow reaction and we've taken no steps into the depths of like understanding and, giving allowances to everyone.
And that's a big thing. And I always ask people now. Are you willing to have this conversation? I need to know, are you willing to have it? Because I know for me. I'm going to be careful. I'm going to exercise, empathy and love when I can, how I can now, how I've learned it up until now, I'm probably going to mess up or say something weird, but I want you to know, I need to know that we're both willing to have this conversation because I'm not going to make it pretty.
I'm going to say what I'm feeling. I'm going to say what it is like to be, I'm going to let you know how what's happened and I'm want you to do the same to me. So, there's an understanding. And Christina, I tell you time and time and time over the past 11 months, that is the element missing care and allowing the space for people to understand. How can we change if we're not going to listen?
How, like, how do I know what you're weird about? How do I know you don't understand? How do I know you need to know what it is to be gay in black and queer? How, if I'm not going to give me the opportunity to talk, to get it. After you've heard me talk for eight hours and I'm not going to allow you eight minutes, it's awkward.
It's not fair. It's not, it's not acceptance. It's not fairness. It's not listening. I can tell you. It's something that I now have to have a very deliberate practice with saying, "Sure, we can talk about this, but I want to make certain that you're willing to go because we're like, I want you to know we're going in."
Because I love Brené Brown. She said "the BS meter is off." It's so true. And I'm like, you're right. It really is. And I don't think we're ready for it. I, you know, I mean, I think we're getting there, but it's deeper than we think on so many levels. I mean, not just race, but politics and the, how people are treated during all this stuff.
And we still don't want, we definitely want to let you know how we're feeling and everybody is really articulate about their corner of the room. But when that middle space happens, everybody loves to say, I can step into it, but are you ready to do it? It's like Lizzo. "Why are men ready to be great? Until they have to be great."
And that is applicable to so many things. So when I watched the interview with her and David Letterman, I was like, that's the sentence of the century right there.
Ah, well, I don't know if you know this, but I love conversations. Obviously, it's just an obvious thing, but they're hard, really hard, especially with people who have different mindsets than you. And something I've learned that I find really interesting, is you can't go into a conversation thinking you're going to change someone's mind without the willingness to change your own mind.
Because in their point of view. They're right. And so, in your point of view, you're right. And you know, I'm right. 95% of the time, but I still need to go in with the mindset of I'm I'm willing to change if you are, and then we can have the conversation. People aren't willing to do that. And they think they are, but it's hard. It's really hard
Yes because, it is hard because they're duped by their knowledge. They think that because I have the knowledge, I have the idea of the practice of it that I'm willing, but it's like, okay, those are the technical skill to approaching the topic and the action of conversation and understanding.
So, you have to put those into practice. That's a whole different measure of muscle. And it's like, are you ready for that? Because I can tell you when you had to go do that whole 30 a month, that first two days is like, no, I ain't doing it. Like, you know, you can relate it to the most simplest of ideas to understand that, Oh, I wasn't ready for this.
This was a ball. I was. I was wishful thinking as promised of myself, I was prepared to hold onto the knowledge and understanding, but am I ready and willing to put it into action? And that's why didn't I just do it still? You know, I've so many, I did a leadership retreat a couple of years ago and it was intense.
It covered authors and pastors and I mean, just politics, athletes, everybody CEOs, and they all came away with the same thing. A good leader says, I don't know. They see potential in everything and they are willing to change and they're willing to understand and they're willing to not get it right. It's so funny.
And I was just like, okay. Okay, because it's like, you don't have all the answers you want to look like you do, because that's what we think good leadership is. But all these things are redefining. And the one thing that we need most is to talk about it and how to redefine it. And what's the one thing we're not willing really to do is talk about it.
You can do the work. So it's so funny, Christina. Yeah. That's that's that's it has to be really into deliberate the actions.
That's beautiful. Okay. Another thing you said that I'm kind of obsessed with, I'm just obsessed with everything you say. If you can't tell, like, if I could just like recite everything you've said, I'd be like, that's just all of that.
Um, but you, you were talking about shallow water steps. And I find that such a beautiful metaphor that I never thought about because I'm always like the idea of getting into the water, but like once you're in, what do you do?
Right.
So, I, I never thought about like, just like hanging out in the kitty side of the pool before, like the big jump.
Right. Because I mean, I, that came to me like months ago about, I dunno, I was talking with someone and I remember coming back and journaling about it and I was just, this is how I'm understanding this. Because, and I'm going to have to keep explaining it. I'm going to explain it to people because this is something that we do.
We, we, we can all handle the shallow end and we either want to get into the deep end because we find it entertaining and we find it impressive. We sometimes have always been forced to live our lives in the deep end. So, we're exhausted and we seek the shallow life this past year. I know has. Thrown us in the pool.
Well, hardcore and we'd had to figure a way out. Because it's been that intense and that's literally how it is. I mean, cause you know, we, people, you know, as, you know, people of color BIMPOCs, it's like, we've always been having to like live life in the deep end with all the survival instead of thriving. So, when we get an opportunity to live in a shallow moment, that deep breath seems beautiful, honey.
It's like, yeah, Yeah, I'm fine kiking over here. My feet are getting wet. I see everybody. I'm a part of the big group. I'm so I'm like, I love this. This is a great way of life. There are some people who cherish it and don't want to leave it. It's it's something. And it really means it just is such a strong thing idea. And therefore, for me.
I love that. Okay. So also, I know you're a fantastic writer.
Thank you and you too.
You're welcome... I wonder how much of like your, how much of yourself do you put into it? Because you've talked about being not apologizing and standing up for what you're believing and, and loving who you are and loving, like love and people around you.
But then I, I wonder, and I wonder if you would like to talk about this as. What it's like to write. And do you think about that stuff when you write, or do you just write from your heart? Or how do you, how do you start?
I, it's funny, because I used to like, try to put on music or something, or have to be in a state of being in order to write.
And I'm going to just call what it is when, in, when it came back into the studio online with JWS, Jen Waldman Studios, it just happenstance that everything I was dealing with at that time, every class was asking me to critically think differently. Critically think about.... What it is to be you as an artist and blah, blah, blah.
So, I remember taking Mark Shanahan's Tell Your Story class. And, you know, I've had this, you know, the journal, you journal your life away. I could read my journal entry, but like there was something that snapped in that class, creating, Preparing A Role. I was doing, Thinking Like a Director thinking like doing the Rock U like, it was all these classes asking me to show up as Ivory.
So, thinking of Mark's class, you know, he's giving all these different light needs to storytelling and blah, blah, and it just all came into play. And it just allowed, I just allowed myself to talk, like, I want to talk, talk about what I want to talk about. Expose the shame if any was left. Cause there's still a lot of residue of shame in many areas of my life and others will share. It just like he, there was just an allowance of you showing up as you and everything was resonating around that.
So, when I got in there, something just opened up. Literally I was able to talk like I want to talk. Tell, whatever story I want to tell it. And I know that it's correct. Cause I want you to know as soon as like, if pen to paper, I write it, I look at it and I can go do it. Like it is that cognitive. It's like all starts like really for me like that, that's what I'm going to reading it. It feels like it's coming off the paper. I'm just, I can do this right now. If I have to, like, I can go to the stage and perform this, perhaps because it's I get this story. I know exactly what I want to say. I know exactly what I want to let them into. And I just remember a lot of good storytellers that are always saying, people want to feel it.
People want to know. People want that it doesn't care what the stage looks like. How many rain curtains you have. What the pyro behind you is if you're bringing people into you, it doesn't matter. So, I just like literally that infused, that like lit the pilot light just lit. And like, now it's so funny too, because I can say to you that I want to come to certain classes to work on my writing, but literally when I get a topic to write on, when I get an idea, it totally takes me to another page and I'm already writing and it's so weird.
And that's why I know that I'm locked into the truth of it. I'm locked into letting people always into Ivory. And I. In 2006, I, I had the opportunity to see Roger Federer play. I had like money that year, so I was able to go to the U S open how I wanted to go. So, I was able to see Roger Federer play tennis, and I was able to see Wendy Whalen dance, a couple ballets at city ballet.
And I had this audition where I met this choreographer her name was Finn Walker, F I N Walker. And she was from the UK and she was staging Equis. And each and every one of these people at some way or another, they're all like artists. And like, I mean, in their own right. And I mean, they all have witnessing Roger, witnessing Wendy dance, and learning from this woman the show, I was like, my God.
Like they are masters at their craft and they're giving it to me as if they're, they have nothing to lose. So now that I know what that, what those three of that try, even if I just know that I've learned that I don't care what story I tell it's still coming for me, I have so much to talk about and write about, and this is a literally adopted identity of me, this story I'm telling you, so why not share it being the fullest color that it is, and it has been so eye opening to me. I love connecting with people that way. It's so crazy. And I love it. That it's my own thing. I loved it. It's kind of weird and not fantasy and not like so metaphorical and all this stuff. Actual. It's like legit. I love that it moves me just as much to people were listening. And that's why I know we're having the proper shared experience.
Christina Peña: Let me just like pick my jaw up off the floor.
Ivory McKay: You're crazy I love you...
Christina Peña: You just said essentially being yourself means leaping because you have nothing left to lose.
Ivory McKay: Yes. 100%. I could've told you that years ago, girl, like, you know, what's so funny, Christina, I can, what's different is that I'm feeling and doing it.
Versus thinking about being it's so bizarre. I never trusted the idea of that statement. It sounds great. It's the same thing we just talked about earlier. I have all this knowledge. I got all this language to say, but it's the doing? That's going to actually, I can tell you that's what it is. And I feel different.
If feels different. It, it definitely is a muscle that I have not, it's almost atrophy. That's why it seems like an avalanche. And I thought I'm not able to handle it says too much. Yes, you are. It's just, the dam just broke and the water will subside, but it just seems a little heavy at first. It's okay. Oh, totally.
Christina Peña: Let that water flow. It's fine. We'll rebuild a dam later. I love it. That's beautiful. I also am obsessed with stories because like, obviously if you can't tell. When people tell stories about themselves, watching someone tell, I just watched you obviously, cause we're on zoom, but I got to watch you tell a story just about like being yourself and the light that shines from within you talking about yourself is contagious. I'm over, we're thousands of miles away. And I'm beaming, watching you talk about yourself. And I think that's the beauty we miss in storytelling is that you don't get to connect anymore. And. You, you missed the live experience of someone just beaming from ear to ear. And it's so beautiful to watch. And.
Ivory McKay: That's how I felt when I watched you for the first time with Kiet and a Regina, I was like, She's hilarious. She's awesome. Like she’s honest. My favorite thing, you were like, I did everything I needed to do to get on stage.
I was like, she means it. And if there's no arrogance in this statement, it is just like, I like loved it. Oh, my God. That's amazing. Everything you said, but it's just, it was like, yeah. I, 100%. I agree with you and thank you for what you said, but like, literally it's the truth and that's how Mark's Story Jam went I tell you what everyone at that Story Jam spoke about, because it was them.
It was honest. You're right. That everyone's light turned on. I can remember everyone's story.
Christina Peña: Yes. And that's the real beauty I find in storytelling is the effect it has on other individuals. Especially when you tell personal deep stories, I have traumas and I have things that have happened to me. But when I talk about doing everything I can to be on stage, I did that for years.
I never thought about it. But now when I talk about it, people are like, oh yeah, I did that. Oh, Yeah. So that means I'm cool. Like, let's talk about that. We forget how much impact we have on other people by just our words.
Ivory McKay: Yes. Yeah. And it's so weird, how like, we underestimate it. It's so bizarre. We know. How we feel when we read a book. We know how we read shorts, a poem, short story.
We read to the lyrics of something, we understand the power of words, but for some reason, in our effort to figure them out, we diffuse. Their potency? I don't really know, but it's a weird thing to me. It's a really odd thing. How we try to diffuse or get ahead of the game when we're here. It's a word it's bizarre and how we, it's a weird thing. I'm still out on how to say it.
Christina Peña: We also, we try to see ourselves and other people's stories and when they're inauthentic. We can't see ourselves in that story. When they're not speaking from their heart. I can't connect with you because I don't, I speak from my heart. So, I don't know how to not do that. I just find it so interesting. I love stories.
Ivory McKay: I do too. Why do you think it's something that we still do? It's just, I was listening to this poetry jam on Clubhouse last night and it was so good. Not knowing anyone. And just listening to them, do their poetry, people were going in.
I think people feel even more unapologetic because they're not seen, they're just, there's a voice. And it was the coolest thing just to close your eyes and hear. The person deliver their poem and it was just amazing. It comes to life even more and you listen crazy hard. Wow. That is truth. So, good. I agree with you. Yes.
Christina Peña: I love Clubhouse first off, shout out to Clubhouse and I think it's also really interesting because. It could be looked at as almost regression. We've gone so far in TV and film and seeing people seeing bodies and which we need more of, but you can see everything to come back to a platform that is just voice and it is just live voice. Almost like radios. What is a radio? The beauty of radio, you get to imagine what is happening. You get to see your own depiction of a story instead of a director's depiction of the story.
Ivory McKay: Right. Oh, I agree with you. It is. That's funny. I never thought of it. It's such a refreshing not to have to look at it. Sometimes they hear it. And last night, every story was happening. I was, Oh my gosh. It was so I was like, this is great, this is great. It was so cool.
Christina Peña: I love that. Okay. I have a special gift for you. So, I read this book. I read this book the other day. It's called Month of Sundays and it's a reflection book. There's a, I read this reflection and it made me think of you. So, I thought I would share it with you.
Ivory McKay: Okay. Cool.
Christina Peña: Ready?
Ivory McKay: Go ahead.
Christina Peña: "In some circles, it's cool to be cynical, clever, to be critical. If you dare to raise a note of optimism in this crowd, you risk being branded a simpleton LA LA LA fingers in my ear optimism. Might, well-deserved this kind of dismissal, but informed help and conscious joy are not simple endeavors at all. It is courageous to be hopeful. It is defiant to be joyful. Dear ones, whatever the facts might be today, let's consider them carefully and then fully aware. Let's go forth with joy."
Ivory McKay: It's quite touching. Ooh boy. That's uh, I need to read that every day as encouragement. Wow. Wow.
Christina Peña: It made me think of you yesterday. It didn't make me think of you today and our beautiful talk of joy and optimism. But to, to know that you affect people around you with that. Know that I thought about that way before we had this whole conversation about you and your joy.
Ivory McKay: Wow. That's good to know. Boy. That's funny. That's that's uh, wow. Okay. I'm going to receive that. That's deep on very many levels of my heart. Thank you. WOW.
Christina Peña: I feel like the show should really be called Christina Gives Compliments because well...
Ivory McKay: Because you absolutely have the moment to, I get you. I love that you and I that's.
I got to get that. Okay. I get that passage. Wow. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Is this the truth? How it's been perceived? Do I have some, when I was performing with, she was very, she was not shy about being rude. And she literally told me your always so positive. I don't, you just don't see things as they are. And I was like, ooh. Okay. And that's when I remember I allowed that to curb the, giving up a joy and everything, because it was, it was making perceived, as being silly or not adult or not, not seeing things as they are not being serious. It's oh, so yeah, that's passages quite illuminating and in just a nice moment. Yes. Thank you for that, reading that.
Christina Peña: Okay. Okay. Well, I have two final questions for you. What is a piece of advice you have for 16-year-old ivory?
Ivory McKay: I have for him.
Forgive them.
Love them and let it go.
I don't want it to cost you everything.
That is, it. Oh, my God. The truth. That question. Okay. Yeah.
If you just
Christina Peña: see the tears running down my face. I don't want them to cost you everything. Oh, Ivory. That's Oh my God.
Ivory McKay: That's the truth too.
Christina Peña: That's so beautiful. Okay. Well let's change gear. What is one hope you have for the future?
Ivory McKay: Oh God, Christina. Okay. This is a deal. I want you to know.
This, I I've always been this way and I can probably say it now because we're where we are. After all this last year, I was like 11, 10 or 11 because it was summer camp in Michigan. And I went to this camp, everybody's there every color, size. And so, and, you know, My camp counselor. I was, I was serious, supposed to be 12, but the 12 year olds were on one side of the Creek, the teenagers on the side, there's a small bridge.
You can go back and forth. And so, our camp counselor, his name was Tino and he was six, three, and cool ass hair, like, I mean, just a bad ass guy. And he was, I want to say, he was Native American, but told us where he was his tribe and everything. And he gave us the history. We were all like sure. He was a giant to us.
And we were like, we have the best camp counselor ever. So, all 20 of us, he would take me. We did. Everything, this got wires, swimming, swinging from the tree into the water. I mean, horse back. I mean, he taught us so many cool things and he just felt like the biggest brother, cause I was the oldest, so the biggest brother. So, I was like, this is cool.
And I remember my parents meeting him and loving him and that was like, wow, this is cool. My parents like him and he doesn't look like us. This is cool. And so, I was like, Oh, okay, cool. But I just remember that time. Feeling that in understanding them, this is the weirdest thing to say, but I'm being so honest with you.
It didn't matter what you looked like, your size, your color, height. I just knew that everyone was here and everyone belonged, and it didn't matter anything. The difference of all of them. I want you to know that didn't teach me it. It enlightened who I was, and I didn't understand how to, but I knew then that I didn't care what people look like.
I knew then that the importance of everyone and it, and I, it's so funny because I remember after that, you know, you hear, you start learning about difference in how it affects people in groups. And you want me not to like them because they're lighter or darker or richer, or that there's no intellect in that.
And I can say that sentence and not defend it because I was 11 or 12. And that's what I've always believed. And I have parents born in the time, honey. It was my parents. So, they could have taught all four of us to hate, legitimately with full rationale and they didn't. My parents were so progressive and father's still here.
My mother is gone. She died on 2014, but. They were so before their time, I feel on how they raised us, how they taught us about being aware, but yet being open and loving, I mean, all of us and I love my family. I just, what I want for the future, that understanding that we all are here and it doesn't matter what we look like.
Like I can't to this day. I wish I had a more eloquent, more deep, driven, like way to say it, that Oprah would seek me out to have me say, I wished I had a way to say it that made it seem like, wow, this is something that needs to be printed. It's that understanding? Because I think it's really stupid that you don't like someone.
That has done nothing to you to cause that. It makes no sense, Christina. I mean, it, it, what intellect are you employing by not liking somebody because of the size of their body, their height, their color of their skin. You want me to think they're less because they're dark. Are you kidding me? That what brain cells firing off.
That's literally how I need to say it because that's how stupid and I, I don't want to ever call people stupid, cause I don't, there's no rationale for it. I'm this person who doesn't look like me has done nothing to me. I'm not going to start off not liking them. Like that makes. That will. I want you to know it makes no sense to me. And I literally to this day, don't know how to say it like profoundly, deeply to make you, or like adult, whatever you want to say. Like, I don't know how else to say it, but it doesn't. And when I'm sitting in these rooms, let's learn how to talk about racism. Let's call. Let's do all these things to get to set of space, like, you know, guidelines.
I mean, all this stuff is great. All things. We all need to learn it and get away. But Christina, the question remains the same. We're literally having a conversation about you hating somebody darker than you? Like, are we really going to have a book about that? That's going on? I resolved and, but what's happening on the outside is true. Let's talk about it. I swear to God. So, I want you to know if there's anything, there's this one thing. If I could take that 11-year-old boy and fuse up that thought and know what I learned at that summer, that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, but like, that's what it was Christina that happened. And I didn't, I didn't get it.
So, there's anything, that idea. Like we all like literally can we get to living properly? Like, I can't understand it, but I want it to change. I want us to know that we all are here. And our differences don't matter. Our differences matter in sharing an experience where I need to tell you about what it is to be a black and gay, that's when it matters.
But after that, we are all here to be human and live together and understand the difference and let it work for us and with each other and let it be there. I can't, I can't say it any way to make it sound less juvenile or remedial, but that's the truth. That is the truth. If this God came down and said, what do you want?
Please let all the people know they're welcome. Can you just please take it away? Can you please get rid of this racism thing? Can you please get rid of it? I mean, because I want you to know after that summer. I remember liking music and starting to figure out that I loved it. And like literally couple years after that, during high school, I literally prayed to God saying, okay, God, I've, now I know how I want to communicate to people, or I want to sing and dance and talk.
And I want to talk about it this way. I'm going to solve racism though singing, dancing, and acting.
Christina. Peña. Ann. Peña. I want you to know, I prayed that to the Lord. I prayed it. Do you hear me? I prayed it. That was my prayer.
Christina Peña: I hear, I hear the prayer.
Ivory McKay: If he came down. If there's one thing for the future, honey, that would be it. Get rid of it. It is killing us.
Christina Peña: It's really interesting because I believe that hate is taught and we must teach. We must teach the future generation to love it unapologetically. And that is our mission in life.
Ivory McKay: Girl taught more than, you know, taught more than, you know, that's what that song "You Got to Be Carefully Taught" in South Pacific. That is so true. That's so true. More, like, um, they're they're given the elements of truth here. I know the topic of this show, but like that's. Pretty much the truth.
Christina Peña: You're like I know there's problems with the show, like entirely. But that song is really important.
Ivory McKay: He's letting us literally giving, giving away a secret. Or like for real. 100%, 100%. You're right about that. It has to, you know what people keep saying, Christina, people get, keep getting this weird slap on the hand when they try to, uh, going back to our, not giving people space, people are getting this word slap in their hand of being called performative. Listen, there are some things that are, but if somebody is trying to introduce a new way of thinking, I'm almost certain the actions are going to appear a bit deliberate and performative because they're trying to introduce something new to their way.
So. I mean with anything we do new, we all have to start somewhere. I can't have people being slapped in the hand for being performative, when they don't even know what their new way of thinking is yet. That's another thing that's happening that we need to stop because there are some businesses and corporations that are being performative. Absolutely. We believe in anti-racism all that shit. It's that? Yeah. That's what it is. Totally. Yeah.
Christina Peña: Well, I want to live in your future. Can I live next door?
Ivory McKay: Yes, girl. Cause you are divine. I love your warrior. Oof. You're. Oof. I know somebody, you re you reminded me. Every friend I had in school, like literally, cause you know, girl, we could talk, we will tell somebody about themselves in three seconds and have backup and have stuff to back it all up.
Don't tell me anything. Cause I, what you're you're wrong already, but taking the breath at my direction. Don't but it was just like, I had opinions. I was ready to talk and I just remember. Whoa. Yes. I think you are such a warrior words. I think you are, you invite a lot of people in more than, you know, and I don't think people are ready to be invited in sometimes that way you're like, come on, let's go.
I was like, what? Wait actually. Yes, let's do it. Let's go. Like for real. What do you want me to say? I guess I'm calling you out and I'm calling you in. We can use my terms, but let's go. You're like, just go, you know, the lingo on, but the real talk is going to happen after we've all sat around the table, because then that's the thing and that's the truth.
And I love that you do. I love it. I love it.
Madge Dietrich: It's an obsession. Talking to people. Hearing their stories. Learning new lessons. Telling the truth. Defying categories. Intellectual jam session. Passing the mic. Making voices heard and more. She's changing minds and conversations. Sharing her appreciation. Taking charge of her creation. This is Conversations with a Mixed Chick.